I can't remember the last big hit Sizemore had to win a game.  He is the most overrated player in the last 20 years.  He is hiting .242 and struck out with a runner 2nd down by one tonight.

Peralta always seems to be in a slump.  2 for his last 33?  Are you kidding me?  His range sucks ass too.

Sizemore? More like SizeBORE. Right? That guy is so bad.

Peralta is a valid question. NO idea why he is here.

Grady Sizemore is a top ten every day player in the MLB.  That is why they are obsessed with him, because he is a great player.

I truly love sizemore and would love to see him an indian his entire career (to say this is unlikely is an understatement). However, it is my opinion that he is a top ten every day -talent- not so much player. I use the word talent because he has the ability but doesn't seem to be making leaps and bounds at reaching his potential. Of course this leaves the possibility that many of us just expect too much of him.

A lot of people dont give him credit for his adjustments because they arent placed on a platter in front of them. Now i'll be first to tell you i was disappointed with grady this april but that's exactly what it was... April.

I think the knock on Grady has been the dropping of BA but if you look outside that he has made improvements. From 07 to 08 he managed to increase his steals while reducing his caught stealing. He increased his homers and REDUCED his strikeouts believe it or not. Yes he still strikes out more than many of us would like and im sure more than he'd like but at the same time he did reduce those some last year. Also note that while i say he improved the HR and cut back on the K's, he managed to maintain his walks. I cant imagine that last statement was easy.

I would like to see him drop in the lineup but once again that's my opinion. I dont think anyone truly believes he's on the decline lol... so we just gotta accept that he's been going through a bad stretch. I highly doubt if we were winning that the heat would be so hot for him. Look at ortiz over in Boston.. given he's significantly older... i doubt he'd be gettin the pass he's getting and batting where he's continuing to bat had boston continued to struggle like they did early on.

Jhonny on the other hand is just... jhonny. Log on mlb.com and look at his hit chart and enough said. ALL his hits (singles up the middle and his 2 doubles both down the line to right. ALL but 4 or so of his outs are grounded to 3rd/SS. The others are weak flies and back to the pitcher. He gets in his mode and he does what he does. I honestly am very disappointed with him and to myself i'd like him benched/traded w/e. At the same time i know that w/e we replace him with... when the season is all said done.. i doubt anyone replacing him will compare to his offensive production. Perhaps the improved defense that almost certainly would come could help but idk how you'd measure that. I suggest we hope he gets out of his funk soon and that the SS that leads all SS(s) in HR emerges. In the meantime i hope we bench him or drop him in the lineup at the very least. Hopefully the changing of the calendar is all he needs

AmherstClevelandIndiansFan wrote:
Grady Sizemore is a top ten every day player in the MLB.  That is why they are obsessed with him, because he is a great player.

He's hitting .242.  .242!!  That ain't top 10.

JCOSU86 wrote:

AmherstClevelandIndiansFan wrote:
Grady Sizemore is a top ten every day player in the MLB.  That is why they are obsessed with him, because he is a great player.

He's hitting .242.  .242!!  That ain't top 10.

It's batting average.  Batting Average!  That ain't a top 10 stat.

Moneyball is going to be a movie before some people get it.

GopherIndianHybrid wrote: Moneyball is going to be a movie before some people get it.

People won't be getting it in 2011.

ctyler45 wrote:

JCOSU86 wrote:

AmherstClevelandIndiansFan wrote:
Grady Sizemore is a top ten every day player in the MLB.  That is why they are obsessed with him, because he is a great player.

He's hitting .242.  .242!!  That ain't top 10.

It's batting average.  Batting Average!  That ain't a top 10 stat.

Uh, OK.  Whatever you say.

He's hitting .236 and left another potential winning run at 2nd tonight.  I wish the Red Sox were loaded with Top Ten talent like Sizemore. 

Oh, and Peralta is down to .200.  Top Twenty talent? 

Mendoza line now the Peralta Line?

Yeah, it's just me who virtually ignores batting average when evaluating players.

And it was established in the other Sizemore bitching thread that he would be batting .279 if he had a measly FOUR more hits.

He had a good night at the plate last night.  Hopefully that gets him going.

ctyler45 wrote: Yeah, it's just me who virtually ignores batting average when evaluating players.

If you "virtually ignore" batting average then you don't get it.  I swear...batting average has gone from an overrated stat to an underrated one in a few quick seasons.

nycindian wrote:

ctyler45 wrote: Yeah, it's just me who virtually ignores batting average when evaluating players.

If you "virtually ignore" batting average then you don't get it.  I swear...batting average has gone from an overrated stat to an underrated one in a few quick seasons.

Because...?

Because...what?  That you're wrong in "virtually ignoring" batting average because...?  Or batting average has gone from an overrated stat to an underrated one because...?  Or both, because...?

nycindian wrote: Because...what?  That you're wrong in "virtually ignoring" batting average because...?  Or batting average has gone from an overrated stat to an underrated one because...?  Or both, because...?

Why am I wrong?

nycindian wrote: Because...what?  That you're wrong in "virtually ignoring" batting average because...?  Or batting average has gone from an overrated stat to an underrated one because...?  Or both, because...?

No offense, but I don't think you understand how any of these newfangled statistics are computed, let along derived. They all take into account all of the factors that batting average does, they just account for additional things and weight certain outcomes accordingly. So while batting average is the best statistic for indicating how many hits a batter has recorded per AB, something like wOBA is sustainably better at indicating how productive of a batter a given player has been. This is because it takes into account things like walks, hit-by-pitches, different outs and differentiates between singles, doubles and triples. These weights are not randomly picked or estimates either, they've been derrived from rigurous computions via markov chains for years of data.

However it's pretty ironic that batting average is not even a good statistic at predicting what a player's batting average should be in the future. Given the high level of random fluctuation in the data, something like TBAVG would be better (shamless-self promotion).

Right.

Getting hits is good, but even something as simple as OBP takes the same things into account that AVG does, but it also takes into account the more repeatable ability to walk.

Luck plays a huge factor in getting a hit unless you hit a line drive or a HR.  It takes skill to put the bat on the ball, but it's completely out of the batter's control after the ball leaves the bat.

It takes skill to put the bat on the ball, but it's completely out of the batter's control after the ball leaves the bat.

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completely? i can't buy that. largely, yes. completely, no.

buddy34 wrote: It takes skill to put the bat on the ball, but it's completely out of the batter's control after the ball leaves the bat.

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completely? i can't buy that. largely, yes. completely, no.

The batter can certainly do things to increase the chances the ball is not caught by putting a proper swing on it, but he has zero control AFTER he has contacted the ball.

DaveMcgr wrote: No offense, but I don't think you understand how any of these newfangled statistics are computed, let along derived.

With all due respect, this is a broad statement.  I'm a big fan of these newfangled statistics and of course they are more useful than batting average.

Not to argue semantics, but when I say that batting average should not be "virtually ignored" or that it is "underrated" I do not mean that it is the best or even a particularly "good" statistic.  Rather, because it has little predictive value it is still useful when used in conjuction with other statistics...for instance when a player's OBP is largely reliant on a flukishly high batting average.