Been reading that we have one of our 90 roster spots available.  Since we may be thin at DT, why not take a look at this guy who is listed as still unsigned:

http://www.profootballweekly.c...ghn-meatoga-95/

At a minimum, he will give us some fun with the announcers trying to pronounce "may - ah - TUNG - gah".  


Seriously though, he is an interior run plugger who ranked as draftable - 24th DT by PFW and rated higher than 14 drafted DL by nfl.com.


Anyone have anything more on him?

He's currently signed as a UDFA with Cincy.

Why not just sign Aubrayo Franklin, or Tommie Harris to vet minimum as insurance until Taylor gets back.

stellardawg wrote: Why not just sign Aubrayo Franklin, or Tommie Harris to vet minimum as insurance until Taylor gets back.

Because that's just what they'd expect us to do.

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--- stellardawg wrote:

Why not just sign Aubrayo Franklin, or Tommie Harris to vet minimum as insurance until Taylor gets back.

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This is gonna hurt but someone needs to say it out loud.

The reason they won't sign one of these guys is the same reason they didn't sign someone to replace Steinbach last year. They are WILLING TO LOSE if it means their drafted rookies get force fed. I think they see it as making the process go faster, even though it's more painful in the short run.

In some perverse way, an injury like Taylor's or Steinbachs presents an OPPORTUNITY for our FO to throw the rookies out there and not take responsibility for what happens.

"Hey the guy was hurt, we had no choice but to play the rookie".

And, you get 2011 as a result.

JerrySherk wrote:
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This is gonna hurt but someone needs to say it out loud.

The reason they won't sign one of these guys is the same reason they didn't sign someone to replace Steinbach last year. They are WILLING TO LOSE if it means their drafted rookies get force fed. I think they see it as making the process go faster, even though it's more painful in the short run.

In some perverse way, an injury like Taylor's or Steinbachs presents an OPPORTUNITY for our FO to throw the rookies out there and not take responsibility for what happens.

"Hey the guy was hurt, we had no choice but to play the rookie".

And, you get 2011 as a result.

Valid points.   That's why it's good to see us refraining from trading away too many draft picks as we look sensibly to the future.  Going to the grocery store hungry enthusiasm can challenge decision making that comes from thorough planning. In particular, I'm thinking back to when we had no day 1 in the 2008 draft and we were only scheduled for 4 draft picks in 2009.  You don't save a sinking ship by putting more dead weight on deck.  I like Heckert's approach in attacking the time of possession personnel such as Richardson, Schwartz, Winn and Hughes just 1 year after adding Pinkston,Sheard and Taylor.  We also have a free agent with great hands like Brandon Jackson to spell Richardson with Oggy and Hardesty competing for reps. 

When this first round QB thing plays out (Luck, RGIII, Tannehill and Weeden) - it's going to be interesting to see who got the best bang for the buck. Think about it.  Is just getting RGIII at the expense of 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks going to be superior to landing Richardson, Weeden, and Schwartz while keeping our first and second round picks in 2013?  The knee jerks of Daniel Snyder always cut corners and rarely seem to pay off such as front loading an Albert Haynesworth contract to the tune of 100 million $ only to question why his team has cap issues/penalty.  There was another year he loaded his roster with a bunch of over priced, has-been free agents only to watch other teams in the division make the playoffs.  Knowing RGIII is already on ACLII - it would suck to revisit history after winning the auction to part with the most high round draft picks.

JerrySherk wrote:

This is gonna hurt but someone needs to say it out loud.

The reason they won't sign one of these guys is the same reason they didn't sign someone to replace Steinbach last year. They are WILLING TO LOSE if it means their drafted rookies get force fed. I think they see it as making the process go faster, even though it's more painful in the short run.

In some perverse way, an injury like Taylor's or Steinbachs presents an OPPORTUNITY for our FO to throw the rookies out there and not take responsibility for what happens.

"Hey the guy was hurt, we had no choice but to play the rookie".

And, you get 2011 as a result.

I don't believe this is true at all.

Let's use the offensive line argument presented.

People forget that NEITHER Lauvao nor Pinkston was supposed to start last year. Yates surprisingly retired and then Steinbach couldn't get healthy after trying to play early in camp.

Even during the early portions of the season, that's hard for any team to overcome. O-line depth across the league isn't very good.

Instead, the team did what it should do. Expect the next guy in line to step up.

They didn't sacrifice the season because they thought those two guards would be better long term. It was simply a case where there really wasn't a better route to go.

SOBOdawg wrote:

JerrySherk wrote:

This is gonna hurt but someone needs to say it out loud.

The reason they won't sign one of these guys is the same reason they didn't sign someone to replace Steinbach last year. They are WILLING TO LOSE if it means their drafted rookies get force fed. I think they see it as making the process go faster, even though it's more painful in the short run.

In some perverse way, an injury like Taylor's or Steinbachs presents an OPPORTUNITY for our FO to throw the rookies out there and not take responsibility for what happens.

"Hey the guy was hurt, we had no choice but to play the rookie".

And, you get 2011 as a result.

I don't believe this is true at all.

Let's use the offensive line argument presented.

People forget that NEITHER Lauvao nor Pinkston was supposed to start last year. Yates surprisingly retired and then Steinbach couldn't get healthy after trying to play early in camp.

Even during the early portions of the season, that's hard for any team to overcome. O-line depth across the league isn't very good.

Instead, the team did what it should do. Expect the next guy in line to step up.

They didn't sacrifice the season because they thought those two guards would be better long term. It was simply a case where there really wasn't a better route to go.

As Philly once replaced a steady performer like Fraley with more upside, we also replaced Fraley with Alex Mack and it worked well for us.  Last year without OTAs and the new schemes marked an ideal time to start inexperienced players especially when the alternatives were as bad as Hicks and Cousins.  There was too much change in too little time to expect a major step forward record-wise in 2011 considering the AFC North has 3 playoff teams. 

I think Pinkston's biggest challenge in switching from an All Big East LT to a LG in the NFL is in the size and power of the guys he faces.  At LT, he often outweighed the athletic DEs he faced by about 40-60 pounds. If they got a step on him he could ride them past a QB because he lined up further away. At LG, he rarely outweighed guys.  If they beat him on a first step or get up under him during a 3 step drop from QB - it's enough to prevent the passer from stepping into his throws.  That's a big adjustment in my opinion.  He'll benefit from last year's experience plus the off season strength program.  He also benefits from playing between 2 reliable performers in Thomas and Mack.

Awakesydaisies wrote:

As Philly once replaced a steady performer like Fraley with more upside, we also replaced Fraley with Alex Mack and it worked well for us.  Last year without OTAs and the new schemes marked an ideal time to start inexperienced players especially when the alternatives were as bad as Hicks and Cousins.  There was too much change in too little time to expect a major step forward record-wise in 2011 considering the AFC North has 3 playoff teams. 

I think Pinkston's biggest challenge in switching from an All Big East LT to a LG in the NFL is in the size and power of the guys he faces.  At LT, he often outweighed the athletic DEs he faced by about 40-60 pounds. If they got a step on him he could ride them past a QB because he lined up further away. At LG, he rarely outweighed guys.  If they beat him on a first step or get up under him during a 3 step drop from QB - it's enough to prevent the passer from stepping into his throws.  That's a big adjustment in my opinion.  He'll benefit from last year's experience plus the off season strength program.  He also benefits from playing between 2 reliable performers in Thomas and Mack.

And how did Philly replace Fraley? With a a guy that was on the practice squad and IR the two years before he finally started. They went with the young player as well when Fraley got injured. Same concept.

Pinkston appears to have done a tremendous job this off season working hard. I think he (and even both guards) could surprise this year -- for those who think they're both chopped liver (which some do).

SOBOdawg wrote:

Awakesydaisies wrote:

As Philly once replaced a steady performer like Fraley with more upside, we also replaced Fraley with Alex Mack and it worked well for us.  Last year without OTAs and the new schemes marked an ideal time to start inexperienced players especially when the alternatives were as bad as Hicks and Cousins.  There was too much change in too little time to expect a major step forward record-wise in 2011 considering the AFC North has 3 playoff teams. 

I think Pinkston's biggest challenge in switching from an All Big East LT to a LG in the NFL is in the size and power of the guys he faces.  At LT, he often outweighed the athletic DEs he faced by about 40-60 pounds. If they got a step on him he could ride them past a QB because he lined up further away. At LG, he rarely outweighed guys.  If they beat him on a first step or get up under him during a 3 step drop from QB - it's enough to prevent the passer from stepping into his throws.  That's a big adjustment in my opinion.  He'll benefit from last year's experience plus the off season strength program.  He also benefits from playing between 2 reliable performers in Thomas and Mack.

And how did Philly replace Fraley? With a a guy that was on the practice squad and IR the two years before he finally started. They went with the young player as well when Fraley got injured. Same concept.

Pinkston appears to have done a tremendous job this off season working hard. I think he (and even both guards) could surprise this year -- for those who think they're both chopped liver (which some do).

Agreed.  Understanding Steinbach was a Pro Bowl alternate in 2010, a surgery induced IR is what started a rookie in his place in 2011.

Concept here is injuries tend to get more frequent with mileage wear and tear.  Where this comes into play for a team like Cleveland is that we usually pay more money for experienced oline veterans like Andruzzi, Pashos, Steinbach, Womack, St Clair, Yates, Pyne, Brown, etc.  And what happens when these guys get injured anyway?  We look to the younger guys like Shawn Lauvao, Jason Pinkston, Steve Zahursky and Brad Bedell.

I'm looking forward to seeing Pinkston's progress too in 2012. It always helps to play between 2 Pro Bowl players.  The irony is he replaced the guy (Steinbach) who had a lot to do with helping Thomas and Mack when they were wide eyed rookies.  I'm also looking forward to seeing someone push Lauvao on the right side.  If they progress the way Heckert envisioned they would, this could get really exciting.

Back in the stone ages I was an OG on a wishbone team. When 5-6 blockers upfront are blocking 11 defenders playing run exclusively - the numbers favor the defense much like a stacked box did last year.  I think we've strategically done some things at QB and with Benjamin to remove defenders from the box so that could help make the run blocking look a lot better as well as Richardson.

QB, RB and WR will all help to improve the game of Luavao and Pinkston from last year.

They were going to have issues so young any ways, but add the fact that they were playing stacked Defenses all year and they really didn't have much of a chance.

Obviously you would hope each improved on technique, understanding, and strength training from Year 1 to Year 2, and they should be held accountable for such.  Still, the improvements around them may well be the biggest factor to their improved play.

Brrexkl wrote: QB, RB and WR will all help to improve the game of Luavao and Pinkston from last year.

They were going to have issues so young any ways, but add the fact that they were playing stacked Defenses all year and they really didn't have much of a chance.

That's why I pointed out what it felt like for being 1 of 6 guys trying to block 11 guys defending run only. Xs and Os are all about finding favorable #s to exploit them.

That's what made me all the more impressed with what our oline did in the 2nd half of 2009 to help us finish as the 8th best running game overall.  Every team knew we were going to run the ball exclusively because our QBs sucked so they could camp out in the box with zero risk for doing so.  A no name RB like Jerome Harrison ran a 10K downhill with the football on the Chiefs defense on a day they were begging Quinn to throw at the 1 on 1's they were dangling on the perimeter/downfield.  Unfortunately, when we did waste time throwing at those temptations they intercepted Quinn twice on a day he had a dreamy play-action setup.

Rk Tm G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G Fmb EXP

1	New York Jets	16	607	2756	21	71	4.5	172.3	24	-4.45
2	Tennessee Titans	16	499	2592	19	91	5.2	162.0	27	16.97
3	Carolina Panthers	16	525	2498	18	77	4.8	156.1	23	2.15
4	Miami Dolphins	16	509	2231	22	68	4.4	139.4	27	21.26
5	Baltimore Ravens	16	468	2200	22	77	4.7	137.5	19	22.49
6	New Orleans Saints	16	468	2106	21	55	4.5	131.6	25	-12.64
7	Dallas Cowboys	16	436	2103	14	66	4.8	131.4	20	-0.72
8	Cleveland Browns	16	498	2087	10	71	4.2	130.4	21	-20.76

1 year later, the QBing from Delhomme and Wallace wasn't exactly removing anyone from the box when another no name RB had opponents learning who Peyton Hillis is.  McCoy took over the same situation of crowded boxes and Hillis had some more good games.  Brian Baldinger did a fun feature on our running game after we ran the ball down New England's esophagus calling our personnel the "The Smashing Pumpkins." This is a gigantic reason I was ecstatic we kept George Warhop on as the oline coach in 2011.

This season should be a lot more fun for all of us.  There's 1 more offensive coordinator and 1 more WR coach and enough OTAs to help teach things better than the 2011 situation allowed. A lot of exciting young players in key places joining the team.  I'm already getting pumped for the preseason games just a month away!

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--- SOBOdawg wrote:

Awakesydaisies wrote:

As Philly once replaced a steady performer like Fraley with more upside, we also replaced Fraley with Alex Mack and it worked well for us.  Last year without OTAs and the new schemes marked an ideal time to start inexperienced players especially when the alternatives were as bad as Hicks and Cousins.  There was too much change in too little time to expect a major step forward record-wise in 2011 considering the AFC North has 3 playoff teams. 

I think Pinkston's biggest challenge in switching from an All Big East LT to a LG in the NFL is in the size and power of the guys he faces.  At LT, he often outweighed the athletic DEs he faced by about 40-60 pounds. If they got a step on him he could ride them past a QB because he lined up further away. At LG, he rarely outweighed guys.  If they beat him on a first step or get up under him during a 3 step drop from QB - it's enough to prevent the passer from stepping into his throws.  That's a big adjustment in my opinion.  He'll benefit from last year's experience plus the off season strength program.  He also benefits from playing between 2 reliable performers in Thomas and Mack.

And how did Philly replace Fraley? With a a guy that was on the practice squad and IR the two years before he finally started. They went with the young player as well when Fraley got injured. Same concept.

Pinkston appears to have done a tremendous job this off season working hard. I think he (and even both guards) could surprise this year -- for those who think they're both chopped liver (which some do).

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Brent,
Count me as 1 that cannot stand Lavauo. Pinkston, I like him even more now knowing he spent his offseason with LaCharles. What bothers me with Lavauo is the fact that two seasons in he was in the same category as Pinkston as a rookie, BUT, Lavauo made a ton of additional mistakes mentally. You state you see potentially better play from both guards. My question.... What was SL doing this offseason that makes you feel comfy with the RG position?

DawgBacker26 wrote:

Count me as 1 that cannot stand Lavauo. Pinkston, I like him even more now knowing he spent his offseason with LaCharles. What bothers me with Lavauo is the fact that two seasons in he was in the same category as Pinkston as a rookie, BUT, Lavauo made a ton of additional mistakes mentally. You state you see potentially better play from both guards. My question.... What was SL doing this offseason that makes you feel comfy with the RG position?

Lauvao also spent time with LeChuck this off season.    (not as much as Pinkston due to living in Hawaii, but he's put in some time too).

Plus consistently at RT could be a huge difference.

My issues with both Pinkston and Lauvao coming out of last season weren't necessarily mental, they were more technique than anything else. And it takes time with lineman at any level to truly become comfortable with technique, thus becoming consistent. That's what makes Joe great. But not everyone is Joe.

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--- SOBOdawg wrote:

DawgBacker26 wrote:

Count me as 1 that cannot stand Lavauo. Pinkston, I like him even more now knowing he spent his offseason with LaCharles. What bothers me with Lavauo is the fact that two seasons in he was in the same category as Pinkston as a rookie, BUT, Lavauo made a ton of additional mistakes mentally. You state you see potentially better play from both guards. My question.... What was SL doing this offseason that makes you feel comfy with the RG position?

Lauvao also spent time with LeChuck this off season.    (not as much as Pinkston due to living in Hawaii, but he's put in some time too).

Plus consistently at RT could be a huge difference.

My issues with both Pinkston and Lauvao coming out of last season weren't necessarily mental, they were more technique than anything else. And it takes time with lineman at any level to truly become comfortable with technique, thus becoming consistent. That's what makes Joe great. But not everyone is Joe.

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Thanks Brent

If my mind serves me right, Lavauo was Top 5 OL in penalties committed. Add that in with his technique issues, & you have a formula for my aggravation with Lavauo. The $h!tty part is you can see his potential. Dudes very strong & nasty, & hopefully it's more.help needed from RT as all are correctable!

DawgBacker26 wrote:

If my mind serves me right, Lavauo was Top 5 OL in penalties committed. Add that in with his technique issues, & you have a formula for my aggravation with Lavauo. The $h!tty part is you can see his potential. Dudes very strong & nasty, & hopefully it's more.help needed from RT as all are correctable!

This tweet from Lauvao made me think of you yesterday:

@ LeCharlesBent65 this has to be the most technical and functional stuff I've learned about football in my life